[Finished] Pommern (4)

[TheVole]

@ TheVole:

...and you really know that with most of these changes, this map will act like each (common) others around?

My intention was for the teamplay: one player has to collect the fuel, the other one goes for the mun....
Same with the VPs in the centre- but there is no problem to fix that, if it really hurts....
And you are right when Ive got to lower the MPs and open the encirclements in some areas....

What about the fuel and mun count? acceptable?



greetings
SSonne

I'm no balancer, but I felt the fuel was to high, Within the first five mins I had about half the map with 50 fuel income and with none of them secured. But on the other side of the spectrum, munitions seemed to be not as abundant as fuel.

Each side get a base of 30 fuel and 25 muni, which is fine. But 20 of that fuel for the axis 20 is right by the bridge and can be taken with ease via the bridge or the river crossing. Where the allies have their 20 fuel right in front of their base. When I was playing as the US I just built two MG squad and sent them to those 2 axis fuel points and locked down while my team mate secured the rest of our side. We won purely because it's very easy for someone to capture those two fuels and defend them, plus we were getting 50 fuel a min...

The Axis fuel points by the river need to be moved back, and maybe a one of those +10 fuels for each side could be changed to +5.

[SSonne]

@TheVole:
Ill follow your suggestions to lower the fuel income and move it a little more to the Axis... but guess what Im doing right now?!

Thank you man! You have no clue how much u made me happy! I love 8 player maps and mega fights

[WIP]
8 Bases are already on that map and Ill hope it wont get to warm and toasty 

[JuhwannX]

The map is ridiculously poor to play on. You made a map called " Compstomper Heaven" That should have been related to this map. There are too many houses. The whole "cross the bridge to assault your enemy" is bullshit. The enemy will just do 1 thing. Rush an engineer up to that point. Place Wire. And mines there, and then bam. That's it.

Clean up the tactical map. It's just too cluttered with garbage. Use photoshop to fix that up.
Make all water passable. It's ridiculous that only specific spots of negative cover water are passable. Make all of it passable, and you help mittigate the issue.
      - OR BETTER YET: Just remove the whole bridge mechanic, and just have the player use the freaking roads to get across. Bridge maps/Water Maps suck in
CoH anyway. (I.E. Industrial River, and Blowlands.) I can just imagine this becoming the Pripyat map from CoH 2. Or better known as Scheldt 2.0.

Remove alot the houses for the Axis side. The map is too cluttered with housing. It's really open and forested for the Allies, and yet it's overly cluttered for the Axis. On top of this, due to the water, there are few ways to get around the map with vehicles. So good fucking luck trying to have a tank battle on this overly clustered map. Maps like Sturzdorf, or even Semois, that have towns and all of that have 1 thing that this map doesn't. The open places aren't too open, and the maps aren't too big. It's ridiculous. The Maps so big. Only connecting halves by very easily abusable single location water ways, and a bridge. Also. Why do axis have 2 VP's on their side, while allies don't?

The large amount of houses, make doctrines like Luftwaffa, and Urban WAY too good. And way too abusable. Just make 4 partisans from your opponents own houses and then wait till his army is crossing the bridge. Then BOOM. And honestly, I don't mind matches maybe favouring a doctrine, or not. (Looking at you Freedom Square) But if it's got something going on, it's not that bad. But that's the thing. This map DOESN'T have anything going on with it. There's no definite strategy's. Except arti-spam. And that's going back the the above Scheldt 2.0/ CoH 1 Pripyat/Arti spam map statements.

Also. Make the base sectors freaking bigger. It's so cramped and cluttered. Also fix the MG emplacements. The other player can just go around the other side of the Allies base and then go into it and start wrecking shit. And the Ally player can't do anything against it.

And another thing. Trying to make your map different is cool and all. But don't use that as an excuse for poor map design. Saying "Then it will play like all others." Doesn't excuse you for making your map crappy. The reason why people would want the map to play like others, is because those maps play well. Things like Demyansk, Karachev, Freedom Square ( To an extent), Msstow, are all maps I enjoy, cause they have basic CoH gameplay. Cut-offs. high resources, green cover, good flanking routes, and all of that. Things that make CoH good and different. But this map is like most water maps, and is filled with red cover everywhere. Hell, I'll give Blowlands the fact that there was at least green cover in a FEW places. With this, it's all in the industrial area. MEANING the Wehr, Ostheer, or PE side. So basically all 3 factions can defend their side  so easily, without contest. It's ridiculous. As the only way to get past a defense like that is, guess what? Artillery of some form. Which is just a boring and poor way to design the map. So yes, you can be different. But you can't produce garbage.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Didn't SSonne say that the water is crossable mostly? Then there's nothing wrong with having a bridge and a river in the middle of the map.

However, I prefer map layouts where the Rivers do not divide the allies/axis but the teams themselves (like on Berlin). 2 players start on each side of the river and start fighting. It's quite cool tbh.

[JuhwannX]

When I was doing some playtests of it earlier, only small parts of the water were crossable. Maybe he's updated it, and my version was old, but I'll try it again this afternoon.

[SSonne]

@JuhwannX:

thx for your statement, also...
Let me get some time to swallow that to find the words you are waiting for
But- dont try one of the first versions for it wasnt changed in river passability: There is the Bridge and way down south for vehicles and 2 other ways in the north for soldiers...  maybe I can ad a few more, but it will still stay a BRIDGE map- if you like/dislike...

The other points you had (the VPs for example) is written in "the rules" of uneven VP-count  and on a BRIDGE map dividing the actors, there is no chance to fix this  (maybe giving the other player +5fuel or something?)  But that wont work,too if annihilate is being played ...

So let me see what others think about this "garbage" and please hold on to you dreams- maybe they´ll come true, somedays



greetings
SSonne

[SSonne]

Hy all-


here is the update regarding your suggestions so far:




1:  added vehicle path
2:  added foot path
3:  swapped Fuel + Mun
4:  added Mun high



additional fixes:

- changed two F10 to F5  (-10 altogether) 
- added barb wire to the bases
- moved and centered VP#3 into the river
- fixed some map-bugs  (tile count)
- added green cover in a few places
- rearranged some mun/fuel points
- added and fixed impassibility
- ...


-> Download see 1st post on top (02. Aug.2013)


please test & comment 



l8r
SSonne




PS:
@JuhwannX:
although I wasn't able to take Artillery out of the game 
 your comments are very helpful and always refreshing!

[TheVole]

played it, needs 20 fuel per side, fuel was far to scarce in the match and I was floating 350 muni by mid game. Their is far to much muni and now to little fuel, their should be 20 fuel and 25-30 muni.

Other then that, I think you have made good progress from the first version. But as I said above the resources really need to be fixed.

[SSonne]

Their is far to much muni and now to little fuel, their should be 20 fuel and 25-30 muni.

Hey man,
thank you for testing + feedback 

but, let me count : its 25Fuel and 30Mun per side
+ 16Mun extra, reachable by player 1 + 3 almost equal...

(+16 Mun is for the arty-barrage @ JuhwannX) 


should have presented a better tactical map, Im sorry!


Would like to play against real player right now!
Think my comp is a bit to slow to serve a match... but anyways- Im in the MUMBLE right now!


cu there

 

[SSonne]

short question @ those who`d downloaded the map:


Should I build an extension to the village almost mirrored to the other side of the river?
And add some cover on the main roads, btw?!

This version isnt etched in stone- and YOUR comments can help me to fix alot....


regards
SSonne

[JuhwannX]

Yes. Add some cover to the main road. And extend the village.

[SSonne]

so I
updated the map  (see 1st post for download- link)

-the village extension could have been bigger, but its all right I think 
-added cover to the roads and some other places
-added specific ai-markers to the players- hoping for faster ai-action in the beginning
-extended the start territories a little
-still no other weather to choose

just played a test match and lost 

Hoping you enjoy the map by now...


greetings
SSonne

[SSonne]

bumping


for latest version:

-added weather  (rainy afternoon & dawn)
-added some minor visual features


and I think its the most I can do right now, so no further updates in the next future 


once again I updated download link in 1st post ( .zip file, weather & loading screen incl.)


cyas
SSonne