Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry  (Read 5362 times)

Offline Serenissima

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[1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« on: April 04, 2010, 04:42:55 PM »
Before I say anything, I'd like to say thanks to the team for making such a well-made, solid addition to the game. But in my games over the last few days, I've noticed something.

Is it just me who thinks that the machine gun on the motorcycles is vastly too effective against the earlier Soviet infantry - Ingenery and conscripts?

Both against people and the AI, I find that a Wehrmacht player just has to build a few motorcycles, then spread them about. Even without the suppression effects, both Ingenery and Conscripts lose all of their men within about ten or fifteen seconds, even with cover. These units seem to have some tweak making them especially vulnerable to all automatic weapons, and aside from the Command Squad, which lasts a little bit longer, having two units of Ingenery being slaughtered by one motorbike is rather depressing. In the -very- early game, there doesn't seem to be a counter to this - until one of the second-tier structures can get up, the Soviet player has absolutely no weapons that can do much damage to motorbikes - only tiny increments of damage, which the motorbikes easily run away from even when below 25% health.

The damage part is less of a problem, but I'm simply finding, from both sides, that just spamming motorbikes and Pioneers is an extremely viable Wehrmacht strategy. Capture with the Pioneers, each unit accompanied with one motorcycle, and I've been able to press at the borders of the enemy base even in larger maps before the Soviets are able to produce tank hunters or guns, which means I already control most of the map and have effectively won.

And from the Soviet side, this is an obvious problem, when even groups of several Ingenery or Conscripts have to fear encountering a lone motorcycle unit, making very early-game capturing impressively difficult, and no unit with any effectiveness against them coming in for a while. While the early game units can -later- be upgraded to be somewhat more effective, you're practically in the mid game by that point, and the trouble is very early game, the initial dash to capture stage.

I'm not certain how I'd fix this, personally, not knowing the architecture of the game files: ideally, tweaking the resistance level of the two starting Soviet units solely against the motorcycle's non-suppressing machine gun, so that they don't simply die against it even from cover, or making one of the starting units able to actually do damage to the motorcycles without spending nearly thirty seconds getting it down to <25%, losing many men, and then watching it run away.

Purely in terms of MP costs, it can hardly be right that one initially-available scout unit so hugely dominates the early battlefield, to my mind. But I'd like to hear the thoughts of others.

Offline vietlord

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Re: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 05:14:48 PM »
yes it's effective ... my solutions is :
_ aim the pionner first
_ start a blob (colonel + 2 conscript) and run to have people all around it

_ sometime trench to defend an important spot
_ house garnisonned help too
pleeeease criticize or comment my ostheer try
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3265.0

Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 11:28:16 AM »
Motos are an effective unit, that's for sure. They deal quite a good amount of damage but your statement of their health is inflated quite a bit. Just keep pressure on it as you would with any other army and kill the pios as they repair. It actually will go down VERY quickly to bullets if left under fire for a little while and it absolutely does not take AT guns to kill bikes. The command squad especially is very good against them. Try to take into account the lack of reverse and he won't be able to run from you if you surprise rush him under heroic charge. From there, use the masses of bodies to block the bike from moving.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.

Offline Versedhorison

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Re: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 04:36:09 PM »
you serious? I'm finding that command squads deal with motorcycles very well.

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Offline Ghost

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Re: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 05:38:14 PM »
you serious? I'm finding that command squads deal with motorcycles very well.

isn't that what he said?!  :P
[...]The command squad especially is very good against them[...]
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P

Offline Serenissima

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Re: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 11:32:50 PM »
Command squad isn't the problem. Trouble is that one bike is capable of taking out several squads of Ingenery and Conscripts at once, and bike spam seems an extremely viable tactic, since the standard Mosin-Nagant barely scratches the paintwork on one of them, for some reason (whereas bikes die against GIs or Tommies).

Offline Versedhorison

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Re: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 06:35:45 AM »
then you should build command squads to start with if you expect a bike rush and you want to counter it.

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Offline SK8ERatWAR

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Re: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 03:28:50 PM »
then you should build command squads to start with if you expect a bike rush and you want to counter it.

well that would be a problem, 'cause you can only build one command squad..  :P

After I read this post, I tried a bike spam immediately, and they are indeed very powerful against tier 1 units, even against Strelky I could win with 1 bike and 1 pio squad..
I built 5 motorbikes in total in the early game, and I had only lost 1 by the end of the game 15 minutes later..

Offline Serenissima

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Re: [1.04] Effectiveness of Motorcycles vs Soviet Early Infantry
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 08:45:25 PM »
then you should build command squads to start with if you expect a bike rush and you want to counter it.

well that would be a problem, 'cause you can only build one command squad..  :P

Indeed.