OFFICIAL POLL: Removing the original factions plus adding in retreat and vet

[Zerstörer]

That's a major change in the other factions ,so no it can't happen

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Just one point i want to say about this discussion;
WHEN red army get veterancy AND retreat all of you
should think about the consequences; what will make
red army now so special or so unique?
For me red army is a unique faction BECAUSE it break down
CoH mechanics and that is a really cool thing for me because red army had to be played different from old factions.

So please think about consequences and the price.
I think you guys will find a lot of arguments for
or against one idea or poll option and so i dont want to
interrupt the "voice of the community" any more

Lord Rommel

[nbeerbower]

I would like just to remove all the Relic Factions, including Wher and US. Does it really make sense to have them fighting side by side... or can they not be removed like that, perhaps locked? It's just my feeling that if you're going to remove two Relic factions, then why keep any? (Again, maybe a technical problem, IDK)

[Paciat]

Could it be done this way that you copy PE/Brit and then replace them with RedArmy/Ostheer and then add PE/Brit as actually new factions - this way RedArmy and Ostheer should be able to recrew weapons and PE/Brit wouldn't? PE doesn't have any weapons to recrew anyway, and Brit only emplacements.

Btits have mortar, MG, Bofors, 17lbs, 25lbs emplacements, commando MG and mortar. All of these can be recrewed. Thats more than any other fraction. 

[Dominic 'Dragon' Cassidy]

Ah nbeerbower your one of those historical freaks ay? XD

I'd only go with that if we had more races to replace the Americas and Wehr with (so 4 EF sides), and that would take a lot of more time.
Plus, original point of the mod was to add to the game, not remove from it.

wordsmith's idea is interesting. Like Zerstorer said it's a major change to the vanilla factions, something we've always been against.
But, a very good point. Would just need to edit every pickup-able heavy weapon, and swap out the British pickup squad, for a Soviet one.
Paciat has a good point also, but you could say Brit heavy weapons are more easily available (built straight where their needed also), plus majority of the time you can't recrew them, they get destroyed instead.
But, removing the recrew ability will stop them from getting other Allied/Axis heavy weapons too.

Guys feel this should be added to the poll? Allow Soviets to recrew heavy weapons, at the expensive of the Brits being able to do so.

[Zerstörer]

All factions have recrewable weapons/emplacements. Brits also have commando MG/Mortar.

Re-crewing is as much about your own weapons as it is about stealing the enemy's weapons.

PE will happily steal 57s/mgs/mortars(even friendly WH ones!) etc and stolen weapons can give you that necessary advantage (surely you know how useful captured MG42s are!).

Beaking core mechanics is not what makes a faction different, not in my opinion. There are four factions as a testiment to that...ane the Brits who somewhat deviated from those core mechanics, are the least popular of the four (see a pattern?).

[WhiteFlash]

Some simple facts that will dictate weather or not these changed need to happen.  Please not that the possible solutions to the problem are ONLY, either removing the OF factions.  OR Relic adding the functionality required.

#1:  Veterancy:  This shouldn't be hard to understand.  Veterancy is a very basic and critical component to COH.  The soviets dont have veterancy, the "solution" that is built into the soviets by having different infantry doesn't even close to address this problem.  The ostheer will also need a veterancy system that works.

#2: Retreat:  At some piont you have to ask yourself, is the "realism" in the faction hurting the actual playability of the game.  what if you could have inf climb on a tank and throw a grenade into the hatch to kill the tank? would it be realistic? yes it would...would it break the game and not work at all in COH? YES.  The fact that the soviets cant retreat is a problem.  Ive heard some uninformed players talk about adapting to the faction and play it differently than traditional factions.  You DO need to play the soviets differently but retreat (like veterancy) is critical to making any faction work.  The ebb and flow of COH is a back and forth combat system that allows for comprehensive attacking and retreating based on battlefield conditions.  If a faction cant retreat the faction WILL fail.

[GriffinZ]

Retreat To me, the best part with the soviets is the "no retreat". It opends up a whole new gameplay in CoH.

Ranking Thank god for no ranking, that's almost the best part, no drop-hackers.

Recrew No recrew works well ingame, one of the weak spots of the brutal soviet manspam. (just think about if they spamed that howitzer mortar and recrewed them with conscripts)  :S

Veterancy not sure, However it have to not be a US or PE copy.

Automatch Hates VP...

the problem is that ostheer won't be able to recrew :/
but you should keep the German factions, both are fun to use against USSR

[funnyme]

Hi,

4 fully playable factions in game at any one time

,
1).Why only 4 Playable units with full functionality and why not 6 or 8?
2).And, Why does it effect only the expansion factions ?

Anyway, Recrew /Vet would be nice to have elements ...My favourite faction are the brits , But would love to play the WH/OH-USA/USSR..

Regards
funnyme

[WartyX]

Engine limitations mean that there can only be 4 fully functioning factions. This is beyond our control and can only be fixed by Relic via a patch.

It affects British and Panzer Elite factions because they were deemed as the least played and least enjoyed. Apparantly.

[Dominic 'Dragon' Cassidy]

Yeh, only 4 can fully work 100% (re-crew, automatch, ranking).
Unless Relic changes something on their end.

[Panzer4life]

I would like to see the British and the PE removed, even though they are fun to play as. They just cause a headache when deciding who to play as. I don't want to have to pick between three allied factions and three Germans faction, then decide who to play against. But i don't want Russia to have the option to retreat or gain veteran, it is what makes them so unique. But the ostheer should be able to vet and possibly retreat. So get rid of the PE/British and allow the Russians to re-crew their weapons.

[wordsmith]

Yeh, only 4 can fully work 100% (re-crew, automatch, ranking).
Unless Relic changes something on their end.

I don't know if I posted my idea clearly before, so again, in regards to Dragon93's post: is it possible to make 4 100% fully working factions?: Wehr, US, Ostheer, Soviet AND 2 "new" factions PE&Brit? While PE&Brit would be copied 1:1...

I know that it maybe not so easy as I imagine it when I was younger I made some code working too and often simple ideas required tons of programming so please correct me if it is not possible or extremelly difficult to make this way. And yes this suggestion will render PE&Brit little less valuable since they will be not able to recrew but at least we can keep 6 factions, and 2 of new should work 100%.

[nbeerbower]

Really I wouldn't fret so much about this until the Ostheer come out. It's reasonable that the Soviets (minus the NKVD conscripts) get retreat, in fact it's more historically accurate. And a vet system would be nice too. Recrewable weapons with the Soviets aren't necessary right now. But, when the Ostheer roll around - it appears removing the PE and Brits is our best option.

It does seem possible that you could keep the Soviets unrecrewable, and swap the PE for the Ostheer. Then just play the PE as a "mobile faction."

All in all. Let's slow things down and get a new patch out giving the Soviets retreat and vet before doing anything too major, and let's not stop hounding Relic. Perhaps a community-wide petition or mass-email of some sort would bring more light on the issue?

[Cpt. Planet]

To tell the truth, I thought that the factions were right on the money.

I like how the Russians were historically correct, and the Russians don't need veterancy, because upgrades are available for them, and I think that suffices.

Also, about the recrewing heavy weapons, if it is too much trouble, why don't you guys give the two new factions the ability to salvage those items instead?

Plus, I kind of like the no retreat rule, it makes more sense, since that actually happened in Russia.

Lastly, PLEASE don't remove any of the factions, because I liked the idea of Eastern Front of being a free expansion. This way, people would just go to Eastern Front just for the variety.