Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator  (Read 11138 times)

Offline TheVolskinator

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Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« on: July 18, 2010, 06:57:57 AM »
See the attached PDF file. I hope y'all like it, I put a ton of work into this, looking at all the suggestions and comments posted around the forum.
Changelog 8/10/2010:

-Added possible unit quotes.
-More information available in “Other” for each unit.
-Unit health(s) raised in general; avg. unit health (infantry) per man was hovering around 45, too low.
-Lichte Grenadiers now have the “Throw Steilhandedgranate” ability.
-Lichte Grenadiers can now be upgraded with an LMG34 after both the MP38 and G41 upgrades.
-VW Kubelwagen cost raised to 180 Manpower from 170 Manpower.
-Fixed typing error which placed Offensive Vehicle Vet1+Vet2 as Offensive Infantry Vet1+Vet2.
-Removed the “Dragon Incoming!” (Fa223 ‘Drache’ call-in) from the left side of the Infiltration Method tree.
-Replaced the "Dragon Incoming!" ability with "Drain". See PDF for "Drain" stats.
-Added Icons for Manpower, Munitions, and Fuel costs for unit costs, abilities, and upgrades.
-Added more stats such as Target Type, Move Speed, Health for vehicles, Acceleration and Deceleration, Rotation speeds, Crush Types, and Crush_Human True/False.
-Edited Tiger, Panther, Panzer III, StuG III, Panzer II, Ostgrenadier, and Feldpionier build costs.
-Revised costs of most of the doctrinal abilities, and hardcapped the 'Warmonger' (Elefant Call-in) to 3 maximum

Changelog 8/11/2010
-Ostpioneers Hp/man reduced to 55 from 70. Cost increased to 170 Manpower from 150 Manpower. Now low quality troops fit ONLY for base construction.
-Feldpionier Hp/man reduced to 60 from 80. Cost increased to 225 Manpower from 210 Manpower. Upgrade for Schwere Ostpioneers cost boosted to 105 munitions. Should be much less spam-able, easier to kill, and it’s upgrade should show up much later.
-VW Kubelwagen Hp/ man reduced to 150. Cost boosted to 185 Manpower. Might be too expensive for too little bang, but Cephalos seemed PISSED that it was so cheap for so much HP, so…
-Lichte Grenadiers Hp/man reduced to 55 from 75. Now much easier to kill; a sort of glass-cannon infantry. Now balanced to be on par for a 1v1 with Volksgrenadiers and U.S. Riflemen; only effective in a 1v2 fight with Commonwealth Infantry Sections; poor HP=easy kills for Tommie.
-MG34 Hp/man reduced to 75 from 80 for ease-of-kill.
-Ostgrenadier Trupp cost increased to 380 Manpower from 310 Manpower to balance spam-ability. Reinforce cost per man increased to 47 Manpower from 37 Manpower to balance cheap reinforcement. T2 and T3 upgrades costs have been boosted. Hp/man lowered  to 85 from 95. Should now be on par to face a 2 vs 1 fight with U.S. Riflemen and 1.5 vs 1 with Commonwealth Infantry Sections. Expense also prevents spam.
-Oberfeldwebel cost increased to 270 Manpower, 15 Munitions, 25 Fuel.
-StuG III fuel cost raised to 40 fuel from 30 fuel.
-Panzer III Hp/man reduced from 410 to 400.
-210mm Nebelwerfer Incindiary Smoke Barrage ability removed due to wanton stupidity and typing error. Incindiary Barrage will NOT be included; too PE-ish.
-210mm Nebelwerfer now has 210mm Smoke barrage ability for 25 Munitions (HUGE cloud of smoke).
-Mobile FlaK88mm Carriage is now only buildable if the Wall of Steel Method is chosen. Removes the PaK 40 from production at the Schwere Ostkriegbarracks but allows the 88’s production at the Schwere Ostkriegfabrik
-Messerschmitt 109E Fighter is now only buildable if the Wall of Steel Method is chosen. Hardcapped at 1.
-Tiger #205 is now only buildable if the Obliteration Method is chosen.
-Ju 87 Stuka is now only buildable if the Obliteration Method is chosen. Hardcapped at 1.
-Added Sd. Kfz. 251/22 Medium AT Halftrack unit. Only buildable if the Infiltration Method is chosen.
-Added Gebirgsjager unit. Replaces Ostgrenadiers. Only buildable if the Infiltration Method is chosen.

Changes should deal with Cephalos' knit picking  ;D about too many elite+cheap units; units are now balanced via HP and expense balancing; i.e. no spamming uber-elite Ostgrenadiers...

Changelog 10/2/2010:
-Radio Trupp’s ‘Mark and Fire!’ cooldown increased to 75 seconds from 60 seconds; rapid, free artillery would destroy early game balance.
-Ostgrenadier Trupp reinforce cost/man reduced to 45 Manpower from 47 Manpower; costs the same as Panzer Grenadiers.
-Ostgrenadier ‘Terror Package’ upgrade has the possibility of removal, PLEASE COMMENT ON WHETHER YOU WANT IT KEPT OR REMOVED!
-Panzer III gained the ‘Long-Barreled 50mm’ upgrade: Long-Barreled 50mm (75 Munitions, 30 seconds to upgrade): Replaces the ‘Stubby’ 50mm with a longer, high velocity 50mm, capable of respectable damage against the Sherman or equivalent.
-Tiger #205: Hauptmann Whitmann Voss ‘Marked Shot’ ability cooldown timer increased to 220 seconds from 20 seconds. No 1-shot-kill spams.
-‘Field Triage’ upgrade added to the Headquarters. See PDF for details.
-“Sounds of War” hardcap reduced to 1 from 2. Use cost increased to 300 Manpower, 35 Munitions from 200 Manpower, 35 Munitions.
-Left and Right-side branches for each Method now have names.
-“Wasteland” ability on the Wall of Steel’s LHS had its CP cost raised to 4 from 3. Cooldown was reduced to 300 seconds from 500 seconds.
-Wall of Steel method LHS new ability added: Zealous Homefront. Zealous Homefront (3 CPs): All three of your resource incomes will be boosted (passively) by +10 due to a rebound at Germany’s factories. Also grants a button-ability (Free, lasts 45 seconds, 120 second cooldown) that will replace any completely lost unit with a Lichte Grenadier squad (E.G., 2 Radio Trupp’s and a PIII are destroyed; you get 3 squads in return). Allows for an infantry meatshield, but could occupy valuable population space.
-Schwere Ostpioneers renamed to Feldpioniers.
-Edited for political correctness; all Russian-specific terms were removed; comments now read “…to destroy our enemies” instead of “…to destroy [the Russians]”.  Apologies to any offended.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 03:14:19 AM by TheVolskinator »
Quote from: Pocketsize
I can't wait till they add british to CoH:O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada.

Offline Newbie.

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2010, 04:54:53 PM »
Very nice concept. I can't see anything wrong with it, but the 'Breack Assaul;t Artillery, should cost 3CP, or be limited to 1 Wespe & 1 PanzerIV Brummbar.

Offline Desert_Fox

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2010, 07:19:49 PM »
Your doctrines are very interesting  :)

Good work! ;)

PS Elefant kill an IS-2 with only 2 shots?  :o
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 07:23:47 PM by Moonwalker »

Offline cephalos

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2010, 08:20:58 PM »
IMHO,Fa-223 will join the "devs don't like it" ideas, like M81Z or Raketenpanzer....
Mobile flak 88 is tad OP:
you already have one heavy at gun Pak40/75mm, so there is no need of another uber-AT. Morover, you should put it to one of doctrines and limit up two of them (even wehr has Flak88mm as doctrine building permit, and it's not mobile!
Obelfelwebel is OP with his rifle. PE G43 shoot VERY quickly...
Nebelwerfer 42: Gas barrage is... innacurrate historcal. Germans have never used gas against enemies.
I guess that Tiger 205 is doctrinal call in? If not,it's OP.
Sabotage is totally OP, as soviets= unit spam= losing units= producing more units... It would work if, for instance, every unit produced by enemy would have chance 20% to begin with 50% of it's health.

Offline TheVolskinator

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2010, 08:30:09 PM »
*Yep. Something that would remove the heir of "HA! SU-152 is invincible and now that I have it, ive won". Now you need to watch out for the Elefant; a nemesis, if you will.

*Fa-223 is already in the game, and you can see it if you play the JointOps mod.

*The two AT cannons are in there to give good counters to the dreaded IS-2 spam, and the 88 is mobile so its not a sitting duck for arty. It's not like that 88 is going to zip around the map like a PaK on Kettenkrad treads...its SLOW, but mobile.

*G43 for the Oberfeldwebel; you can only have one of him, and its intended that he can cause damage on his own: he is a Veteran Sergreant, after all.

*Nebelwerfer Gas Barrage is intended to counter players who place Conscripts and Tank Hunters in trench lines that cut off the entire map. OP? Yes. But the Russian Trench spam is OP too. Yes, the Germans did use Gas in WW1, and on the Eastern Front (in some places) in WW2.

*Tiger Tank 205 will have the cost boosted (due to the tank ace status); it is NON doctrinal but VERY, VERY expensive, and slow. You need the New Mabach upgrade to get anywhere, and it has you stopped for 65 seconds.

*If you look at Sabotage, it costs an insane 5 CPs (same as the KT), and only has a 30% chance of destroying the unit produced. However, your idea is also acceptable. Ill see if i can change it when I edit the PDF.
Quote from: Pocketsize
I can't wait till they add british to CoH:O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada.

Offline cephalos

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2010, 11:37:01 PM »
Well, I'm not against Fa-223, but remember that it was used mostly in 1945. I'm sure that Lord Rommel would say: " It doesn't represent hole Eastern Front" -as he made uncounted times.
*The two AT cannons are in there to give good counters to the dreaded IS-2 spam, and the 88 is mobile so its not a sitting duck for arty. It's not like that 88 is going to zip around the map like a PaK on Kettenkrad treads...its SLOW, but mobile.
... but it's still 88! It should be at least doctrine unit. Wehr and PE have 88 but only when you choose doctrines. Imagine this: match 3vs3, 3 Ostheer Players, and 88, which should be rare and powerful weapon, is fielded in countless numbers. It would be worse than stupid AI 57mm At guns spam.
Ok, I agree that having one Oberfeldweble balances his sniper abilities. Some kind of Ostheer Sniper Ace... One word comes on my mouth... Call-in?
Nebelwerfer 42 Gas barrage. We are talking about chemical warfare. Hiter was afraid, that his enemies will use gas. That's why he ordered NOT to use gas on the front. Even Eastern.
Tiger Ace must be call-in. Due to it's rarity, and price. Imagine situation as above, but replace 88s with Tigers 205.
Your Ostheer concept is really great, but there is too many uber-units which you allow to build. 88, Tiger 205 and Oberfeldwebel should be call-in, at least doctinal.

Offline TheVolskinator

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 01:45:50 PM »
*Other than the 1-shot-kill- "Marked Shot" ability, Tiger 205 is your standard CoH 'Hauptmann Voss' Blitz Tiger, possibly with some changed stats. It's not an "uberpwn cant be killed rapid fire death cannon" unit.

*I changed the Oberfeldwebel, he just fires a more damaging G43. While he's powerful, he will (in my concept) remain non-doctrinal; he's the extra punch to grab when you're not sure if its a Conscript squad or a T-34 around that wall.

*Nebel Gas I'll consider removing, but I ask this: is it a "cool" or "useful" idea to flush the Russians out of their trench spam?

*The 88s I'll hardcap at 2 (or 3?).

*Cephalos, you need to READ the 'Other' on the unit lists! Most of the unit's you've commented on as"spammable are HARDCAPPED; the Nebels at 2, and Tiger 205 at 1!  ;D
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 01:51:38 PM by TheVolskinator »
Quote from: Pocketsize
I can't wait till they add british to CoH:O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada.

Offline Tico_1990

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 02:56:26 PM »
*I changed the Oberfeldwebel, he just fires a more damaging G43. While he's powerful, he will (in my concept) remain non-doctrinal; he's the extra punch to grab when you're not sure if its a Conscript squad or a T-34 around that wall.

I get your point but this made me laugh, you'll hear the difference between the two :P

Offline TheVolskinator

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 03:06:46 PM »
I know. But i didn't have anything better in my head at that time lol.
Quote from: Pocketsize
I can't wait till they add british to CoH:O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada.

Offline Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 06:41:00 PM »
Well, I'm not against Fa-223, but remember that it was used mostly in 1945. I'm sure that Lord Rommel would say: " It doesn't represent hole Eastern Front" -as he made uncounted times.
Jeah. And the FA-223 Drachen had never seen a combat and when not with this weapons.
So ideas like Drachen, Raketenpanzerjäger or other "futuristic weapons" wont be part of ANY Ostheer!

And jeah; I repeat it and repeat it!
For me the symbolic value is important!
The causal-CoH-gamer didnt know everything about the 2ww but most of the gamers have already seen some typical things when they had played other 2ww games.
And this linking is important for me.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 06:46:35 PM by Lord Rommel »
May the force be with you.

Offline TheVolskinator

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 07:59:47 PM »
The Drache isnt a fundamental call-in; is my concept still viable without the cute lil' bugger?  :-\  :)
Quote from: Pocketsize
I can't wait till they add british to CoH:O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada.

Offline TheVolskinator

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2010, 11:11:36 PM »
Changelog mentions a lot of the changes; read the PDF to see if I missed any!  ;D
Quote from: Pocketsize
I can't wait till they add british to CoH:O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada.

Offline Paciat

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2010, 11:52:34 PM »
Whats the point of squad costs if you didnt think about ballance even once?

engienees have 60 HP (more then US rifleman) but they cost the same as Soviets.
Schwere Ostpioneers cost 210 and are far better than volks.
VW Kubelwagen has +60 HP more than a bike for free.
Lichte Grenadiers 6 men with far more HP than riflemen, but cheaper.
Oberfeldwebel is like a british LT but with more abilities and no fuel cost
StugIII - 30 Fuel
FlaK 88mm/36 Carriage is cheaper becouse unlike the Wehrmacht gun it can move and have a crew with more HP.
Messerschmitt 109E Fighter - 2 free strafing runs per minute.

Offline cephalos

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2010, 11:56:41 PM »
Hmm, you have changed a lot. But:
1. Heavy Pioneers ( I don't remember name) get the first upgrade for 75 mun, and they get: Flamenwerfer and 2 G43s for 75mun. It should be 100, IMHO.
You removed this stupid gas barrage! Huuray!  ;D

But, unfortunatelly, overall sight on your concept brings me some thoughts. Looks like that your Ostheer will be absolute instant-win faction. You have the most powerful artilery ( neb42, when shooting incendienary ammo makes smoke. Every unit that shoots smoke DOESN'T any damage), Tiger ( hardcapped to 1, however other German factions must take doctrine to field it), 88s ( those are 88s, they are f****n awesome, only two of six german doctrines can take it, but your can also move!) and 75mm Pak40. Maybe this concept is well thought howto fight the Russian Horde, but what with other factions? When playing Ostheer against USa or CW, Ostheer will wipe them out of the battlefield with ease.
It's too many elite or devastating weapons you can field without choosing any of doctrines. That need to be fixed.
And yes, planes are bad idea too. Again they MUST be doctrinal. Can you imagine situation, when every attack is stopped by moving 88s, Tigers 205, Ju-87 and Messerschmits? Units that you can make without doctrine?

Offline TheVolskinator

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Re: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2010, 04:14:56 AM »
Overhauled cheap elites. Should hopefully remedy the balance issues with U.S. and CW factions. Added two new units and MOVED THE 88, TIGER, AND BOTH PLANES to DOCTRINAL ONLY!!!

@ Paciat; I (still) hold really deep respect towards you, but your comment felt like a slap in the face followed by "you're a bloody useless idiot". It kindof lacked constructive critasizm and just went strait for the /flame. I'm not trying to make it a big deal, the comment just...hurt. A lot. Hopefully what I've channged will avoid any more flaming from the Devs...  :-\  :(  :'( again, not holding any hard feelings.  :(
Quote from: Pocketsize
I can't wait till they add british to CoH:O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada.