[1.3.1.0] 88 and Flak 40

[GodlikeDennis]

Scheldt is a map where going straight for vet 3 panthers and/or stukas is a legitimate tactic. I've also had 88s be a pain on scheldt but only because it's impossible to get to them on that watery death hole.

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

Ok back to to the topic: I just played played Red Ball Express (yes not Scheldt ). I was going on def to "test" it out. It's a really strong doc. If you fortified the perimiter you are able to reinforce from your bunkers and also they get very strong I think (Like the bunkers from Liberation of Caen) and then I build a Flak 88 behind them (vet 3) and made sure that a MG team was sitting into the bunker in the front of the gun. When I saw green smoke I activated the ability "Defense Propaganda". Only one time they managed to "unman" the Flak but then I remaned it and see it still got vet 3 and the american wasted a lot of ressources.

[GodlikeDennis]

He went airborne against a defensive player? Still not exactly a masterful balance argument.

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

I think he picked the easist doc .

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

...Red Ball Express...def to "test"...you are able to reinforce ... very strong I think...Flak 88 behind them (vet 3)  ...

Well. The bunkers will be nerfed hard in 2.700 (25% more health instead of 50%).

And what else does def provide you with? 2 Artillery abilities:

Def Arty(3cp,125ammo, ony useable on buildings and flags),
Rocket Barrage(7cp,200ammo). Then a defensive bonus ability which is good, but expensive and with quite high cooldown. Oh, and the Flak of course.

Let's compare to Terror:

Terror got 2 Artillery abilities:

Firestorm (3cp, 160ammo) can be used anywhere with huge AoE and very high damage.
V1 Rocket (7cp,150ammo) quite potent, but high cooldown.

Then you also get zeal, which makes your vetted Grens into killershredders with lmg42, a forced retreat skill (which is imo same as def arty as most players just retreat when def ary comes down) for 25 ammo less than def.

And a mobile 88 (King Tiger) which is not damaged by arty and cant be decrewed.

It's just: Terror does everything Def does, just better.

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

The increased line of sight + defense propaganda are powerful abilitys too. Also you can call in def artillery on tanktraps & barbedwire. So if they try to get through a defense you can simple arty them and also the registred arty comes in very very fast so there is almost no chance to retreat.

[IJoe]

"Also you can call in def artillery on tanktraps & barbedwire."
not after 2.7

"And a mobile 88 (King Tiger) which is not damaged by arty and cant be decrewed."
No way they are equally effective.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

"Also you can call in def artillery on tanktraps & barbedwire."
not after 2.7

"And a mobile 88 (King Tiger) which is not damaged by arty and cant be decrewed."
No way they are equally effective.

Well, but they both can fulfil a similar role -
Protect a VP from most armour approaching.

The KT is hardly effective against inf (I know, he can kill some guys with his shots, but a Tiger I does kill inf a lot more efficiency)

[IJoe]

The KT is hardly effective against inf (I know, he can kill some guys with his shots, but a Tiger I does kill inf a lot more efficiency)

It can be called-in only once a game, while the amount of 88s is not that limited.

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

I'll teach you! Watch this replay and you'll see how to play as def doc. I use every ability including 4 Flak 88 at least one time.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

It can be called-in only once a game, while the amount of 88s is not that limited.

Well, while that's true, you usually won't see more than one 88 at a time in a 1on1  game. They cost 12 pop, a KT costs 16. Building more than one is more common in teamgames however, since you will see more tanks overall and have more popcap + ressources.

I still think that Terror, especially with the Tiger Ace, will outshine def after the patch, except for maybe 4on4 situations.

But I really think the PE 88 on 3on3, 4on4 is more effective, on triple Off it shoots down planes reliably and hits every fucking time.
It just needs a Wehr to build a bunker nearby.

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

And also PE has the advantage of the forward barracks. If they set up a barrack near a flak 88. Then the Flak will be repaired & gets health automaticly.

[GodlikeDennis]

Yes, those PE 88s. I wonder what we can do to make these more useful too...

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

There's also something planned for the PE 88..

[Blackbishop]

Well, for now flak 88s and flakvierlings won't be changed in EF. As Zerstörer said, perhaps could be considered on the future.

About PE thingy, you'll be surprised .