Regarding 1.501 Conscripts

[GodlikeDennis]

That's the idea. You'll now see Strelky becoming more popular than they were in 1.4 due to this change, as well as other factors.

Conscripts were going to be able to recrew weapons at vet1, but we couldn't figure out how to do it so they got a 0.9 received damage modifier instead I think.

[Paladin88]

Ha ha, the main idea is to win outright (and not to feed CPs to the enemy). However I totally agree with Yauz's post, If you look at it that way, Conscripts are STILL very useful. Just be aware that it only really applies when both sides are equal. In some situations if the enemy controls lets say 90% of the map, it doesn't matter if he/she losses 1 for 1 since the manpower rate will be significantly higher.

I think Yauz you haven't taken into account what if PE starts using armored cars or wehr uses ostwind. A loss is still going to be a loss.

[GodlikeDennis]

That doesn't enter the equation because that is a specific infantry counter and has counters of its own in the game. You aren't taking into account AT guns etc. This is purely a main infantry comparison which is valid because both sides will always have them. Besides, you have to lose 32 conscripts for every AC to be at a loss, or 52 per Ostwind. Not to mention the fuel cost.

As long as you only lose 3 conscripts per gren you kill you'll still be equal in terms of CP experience.

[Pauly3]

still...i want vet back
just make it a real small bonus
like 2 extra health per man at vet 1
throw molotovs a bit further at vet 2
and a little bit more damage (1.3) at vet 3
something like that

[Pac-Fish]

I use conscripts like riflemen now . They cap fast and numerous. Strelky are now the backbone of my infantry. PPSH and DP together are fairly effective . I'd still like vet though. Like Pauly3 descibed. Small bonus but still a bonus

[GodlikeDennis]

1.3 damage is actually a pretty large bonus and better than Strelky get at vet3.

Conscripts won't be getting vet. The devs have made this very clear that it is by design that conscripts are not going to be effective lategame units. In response to this, we (balancers) added the scaling reinforce cost reduction so they at least keep their meatshield use and cheap side capper utility later on. Otherwise, they were simply too inefficient to keep around and you threw them away after 5 minutes.

They may not be great in combat anymore (unless you go Urban) but the lower reinforce cost is actually a huge buff in lategame. Some of you are not realising how incredibly cheap it is to reinforce losses.

I'm glad people are starting to use Strelky more, because that was the entire aim of the buff/nerfs.

[Paladin88]

Yeah 8 manpower is pure pawnage. Thats virtually 1 third the price of riflemen reinforce

[Pac-Fish]

Thats assuming you buy all the available upgrades

[Otto Halfhand]

Ha ha, the main idea is to win outright (and not to feed CPs to the enemy). However I totally agree with Yauz's post...
I think Yauz you haven't taken into account what if PE starts using armored cars or wehr uses ostwind. A loss is still going to be a loss.

...Or anyone uses indirect fire area of effect weapons.

That doesn't enter the equation because that is a specific infantry counter and has counters of its own in the game. You aren't taking into account AT guns etc... As long as you only lose 3 conscripts per gren you kill you'll still be equal in terms of CP experience.

I agree GDL but you don't go far enough in your argument. After the early game Conscripts become support troops rather than infantry.

Offensively use them against support troops not infantry. coupled with "Break Suppression" or "Charge" they do a good job against mortars and ATGs, (and maybe with good micro, HMGs).

Defensively when using them to garrison buildings they are very resiliant; and coupled with "Hold Ground" or 8 rifles they hold their own. The 5 squad Strategic Reserve is very handy when your pop-cap limited is temporarily maxed out as well.

The inability to Vet is annoying. Experience to Conscripts still contributes to CPs; but I hate losing experience points that contribute to Vet. This is annoying when using CW faction as well.

[GodlikeDennis]

CP experience and unit veterancy are separate functions. They have absolutely no correlation. CP experience is provided to both players based off percentages of the unit cost:

Build Multiplier   0.083
Kill Multiplier   0.055
Loss Multiplier   0.0275

So for example, a bunker costs 150MP to build:

Build Multiplier   0.083 x 150 = 12.45 (displays as 12xp)
Kill Multiplier   0.055 x 150 = 8.25 (displays as 8xp)
Loss Multiplier   0.0275 x 150 = 4.125 (displays as 4xp)

For the Wehr player, building the bunker provides ~12xp alone. When an Allied player kills it, they receive ~8xp and the Wehr player will also receive ~4xp for its loss. No matter the unit that kills it, they won't receive any unit veterancy because bunkers provide no xp when killed. The unit xp that destroyed units provides is separate completely from the CP xp which is a fixed value based on the above modifiers and its cost. Unit xp is based off a list of predefined values.

Your point on using them as support troops is solid. Generally, the flanking squads are the ones most at risk of taking heavy casualties. Having cheap reinforcement on these is very efficient.

[Pauly3]

yeah
that nerf was a huge sucess
i now feel bad building conscripts, cause they dont get vet anymore...

[irik]

Now that I think about it, conscripts losing their commissar, conscripts getting no upgrades, conscripts losing vet is not bad. Strelky have been pretty much what I have been using as frontline infantry. Strelky were better in every way pretty much. But two things that I've been wondering about. In a fight, who wins? Riflemen or Strelky? In green cover, and at range? And why can't full rifle conscripts recrew?

[Blackbishop]

Recrew has nothing to do with the ability to carry guns, you know?

[Pac-Fish]

I think strelky might win 

[Cranialwizard]

Strelky have better firepower, Riflemen have better sustainability. Both have excellent upgrades. I believe Strelky would most likely win at long range and rifles at close. Green cover is the best for these squads.

Rifles are best used with flanking tactics. If you flank with Strelky one of the best combos are the DP-28 to draw fire and the PPSH-41 to clean up. I find strelky are easier to use with TH's and Snipers in the mix to handle pesky MG42s while AT-Guns or Mortars lay back and wait for that first armored engagement VS a Puma or Blob/Emplacement.

Strelky have nice AC penetration so anyone using a T1-T3 strat needs some good AC micro. DP-28s are better VS AC's than PPSH-41s. I think BARs might have more penetration than DPs but I don't use Corsix, you'll have to ask Dennis or Blackbishop.

DP-28s are much like the BARs upgrade which really improve RBS firepower as a whole. The BAR can dole suppression while the DP-28 has higher damage output. The PPSH-41s are very nice if long-range BAR style upgrades aren't your style and you prefer to get close and friendly.

Phosphor Grenades > MK2 Pineapple. But that's doctrinal.

Rifles can build OPs. They can also build the 4 basic field defenses with their doctrinal upgrade.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages and are quite nice mainline infantry.