Comp stomp

[jcraven33]

Ok....Cat thank you for the replays. I am going to review them today and see what I can learn. To Otto, I love playing as soviet and the odd part is I crush everyone with soviet and can beat Wehr on hard with them. I think they are the strongest power by far but I don't want to get into that because I have seen boards where it just gets a war going (and its against comp so it does not get the same validity in the argument). Since i do so well with soviet I figured I would understand them and be able to beat them just as I do in the reverse scenario, but that is definitely not the case (on hard) :-) I do agree with the sniper comment by Dann and will try to incorporate another one or two and see how that goes. My puma's get waxed by the SU naval BIG TIME. They always seem to go with that doctrine against me and they really do alot of damage to my pumas so I will have to work on my micro with them and I am sure that will help matters. Great thread (for me) thanks for all the input so far.

[Pac-Fish]

I think they are the strongest power by far but I don't want to get into that because I have seen boards where it just gets a war going (and its against comp so it does not get the same validity in the argument).

Its not that everyone hates the comp it's just its not a good determinant of balance. Lots of ppl play against the comp which is fine but when they start suggesting changes based on comp games, balancers usually get upset. For example:

"Oh conscripts need to cost more. The AI has like 5-6 of them before I can have 3 MGs"

The reason the AI has more is due to the high resources, NOT balance. AND the AI cheats sometimes. That's why you see these "Wars"

[jcraven33]

Yea, I see the reasoning Cat. That's why I will avoid the factor strength issue as that is not what's important to me :-) And Otto, it sounds like you have a good grasp of the AI so if you do play a Wehr vs SU hard game on Ango that was fun and you would like to share it, I would love to see your style of play 

[Pac-Fish]

Have you tried a PvP game yet ? Just wondering

[jcraven33]

Grrrrr!!! I had a long reply and I got logged out so I have to redo it. This will have to be shorter. I basically said.... WOW!!! I watched that P.E. v SU game on ango and it was great. I can't believe SU had such map control at one point and you were still able to come back against the overwhelming resources  That hotchkiss taking out two hurt tanks and the heavy armor coming off map late really sealed the deal. Fun to watch.  I noticed two things I do very wrong. Grouping....you and all the expert replays have way bigger groups than I do (i lose map control doing that so I MUST work on it) and you had two halftracks early which allowed you to finish off a couple units and not allow them to replenish. I may not seem like a big deal but looking at my games where almost no units die due to my not having the power to finish off a unit and allowing them to come right back is really a big factor I believe.  I can;t wait to watch the Langres one now. I tried PvP awhile back but it was not my cup of tea. I have become to used to the pause button and like to be able to observe the battlefield and plan. When I play pvp things get really screwed up without this ability. Sad I know 

[Pac-Fish]

That's fine ^^. When I first played COH all I did was play comp games. Then I started venturing out to PvP (getting my ass kicked all the while ) and eventually got used to the notion of PvP. But as you said:

 

I tried PvP awhile back but it was not my cup of tea.

Hotchkiss with the upgun and APCR can be pretty powerful. And plus I forgot to uncheck it XD. Just like the schiwwm.

As Axis I find (and have been told) that focusing on one side is better which is why throughout the replay I am mainly on the right side of Angoville. Later I venture out to the left side but not all out. The Semois game isn't AS fun but it still has the same principle

[jcraven33]

That Semois was funny. Great use of the Mg and Mortars. Those mortars were just incredible at keeping those huge swarms retreating. I think i will use this map and see with all my little tricks, tips, and unfortunately cheats (FOW and pausing)  I might be able to pull off a win before moving to the ango map as I believe this one is set up better to lock down some choke points. That was very helpful 

[Otto Halfhand]

Your stomp replays and analysis are great.  I will have to save some games. Cat the notion of working on the flanks is the right way to go. APCD on a Hotchkiss! +3

Kraven: If your planning on a long post or it happens anyway save on a stickypad (works better than notepad) and C +P.

...To Otto, I love playing as soviet and the odd part is I crush everyone with soviet and can beat Wehr on hard with them. I think they are the strongest power by far ...My puma's get waxed by the SU naval BIG TIME. They always seem to go with that doctrine against me...I will have to work on my micro with them.

1. try 2v3AI SOV vs Wher
2. If you see A sov sniper start, anticipate Propaganda Doctrine will come next. MGs and mortars screened by some infantry works best vs NI.
3. The converse: If you are Stomping Sov vs Wehr (usually the case?): when you see an ATG or mortar, (Wehr-T2), the pumas and stugs are next. Anticipate this. Research T2a and get a mortar out, I prefer 107mm. and concentrate on produing THs until I can research the upgrade. Mortars yield a lot of criticals on Pumas, That will slow them down. Use the I/F mortar attack move on Pumas. (A cat and mouse game to be sure). As you damage the Pumas they will pull back and the AI will bring up Pios to repair. That is the time to use Mortar barrage abiltiy. Move in your TH to mop up.
4. Nobody wants flame wars. The Class wars with MP and Stompers is equally unpleasant. It is one of the reasons I started these Stomper threads - to avoid needless conflict.



You are both correct. Cat I don't pull out a calc in game. I plan in advance. Thats the reason for the 17muni/rifle bull shit and studying the Economics. Its preplanning that allows me to pretty guess what the AI or another player is going to do so that my counter to my opponents next move is being produced and on the field before the threat appears. It doesn't always work. but thats the way the game goes.
Your comments regarding balance are 1000% on the nut. I don't try to change the game when I get into balance discussions, (it might seem that way but I really don't). There are balance issues in comp play that effect how the DevTeam develops the game. If these issues can be addressed  the PVP game will ultimately be better. I am A Player-Sort of. I am a Stomper for Certain. Foremost I am a Game Designer. And that is a different POV entirely.

Jcraven: A rhetorical question. Are you addicted to that stupid pause button. I am and I hate it.

Your stomp play style 1v1 IS A DIFFERENT GAME from Stomp team play. In 2v2,3v3, 4v4, 2v3 and 3v4 play you are dealing with 3MGs, 2 snipes, 3 ATGs at a time. 1v1 stomp play doesn't have this overwhelming enemy superiority aspect. It is as close to PVP as a stomper can get. The AI is ignorant. It doesn't know anything. It is not clever or sneaky like people are.

The classic 1v1 maps in COH are great. My Game designer jinn makes me mostly use the EF maps. My favorite is Smolensk. IMO Sylver makes the hardest Stomper 1v1 maps to play. My hat is off to you - I really hate you sometimes.  I am not happy unless I am playing 1v1 stomps at expert well. It is a 50-50 w/l proposition most of the time.

[jcraven33]

Well I just did semois Wehr vs hard SU and I crushed them. It was almost too easy so I am now going to try ango again. I am assuming it is the open layout of ango with wehr that is giving me such problems. It might be that I just learned alot over the last day about how to play it as well  (I'm hoping) And Otto....YES!!!!!!!!!! I am so addicted to the stupid pause button it sickens me  LOL  The good part about the Semois game i just played is that in all my excitement to play I forgot to do the FOW cheat so I could see the map (I only use it against hard and expert) and by the time I realized I had not used it I was well in the lead and realized I didn't need it which was really cool for me. Only cheat I used is my addictive pausing. I like those number 2 and 3 tips. That will help alot if I can remember that while playing my Ango hard try. I also will have to give some other maps a try that you talked about after I finally get by this Ango issue I am having 

[Pac-Fish]

You are both correct. Cat I don't pull out a calc in game. I plan in advance.

This was meant to be a joke. Sorry for any misconception .

And Otto....YES!!!!!!!!!! I am so addicted to the stupid pause button it sickens me  LOL

You should try not to use the pause button . Its okay for starters (I never used it b/c I didn't know what button it was XD) but if you're going to tackle harder and harder enemies, you need to let go of this "crutch" so to speak. And semois is kinda easy for Wehr against AI b/c it's easy to hold the enemy where you want them and AI wont flank. In open maps you are much more susceptible to flanks.

[jcraven33]

Well I am definitely learning something cause I just won on ango with Wehr v Hard SU. I had 461 left and it wasn't even close??? The only thing I can think is that it is easier with Victory points because I normally do annihilation. I was south base (which I think is harder) so I capped right side and got an mg in the house closest to their base in the north on the right. That along with one infantry to draw them in and I completely dominated. had those 2 vp's and eventually had enough advantage to go to the left side. Was fun but a little to easy. So now I guess I should do it without FOW on and try to start limiting my pauses until I get to where I don't need them anymore. Going to be a hard habit to break though. Veterancy really helped as well as using that northern house as a new command post to reinforce 

[Pac-Fish]

That's good to hear . I (finally >_<) took out expert AI on Langres with Wehr. Balance with SU and PE is a bit shaky right now so I won't even attempt it but at least I managed to do this . I almost thought I lost  . Lost like 6 pio squads and VPs were ticking down XD

[jcraven33]

I will definitely take a look at that replay. Expert Ai must have so much infantry running around for SU that I will get dizzy trying to follow them all :-)

[donthateme]

Hmm, Im not sure. But your problem is beating Exp Soviet CPU only? Or you have trouble by beating Axis CPU as Soviets as well. Tbh, I never have problems with exp AI... Best conter vs AI are Snipers and fast vehicles.

[Pac-Fish]

Best conter vs AI are Snipers and fast vehicles.

Yeah AI doesn't really make an attempt to focus on snipers and when tanks hit the field they don't rush for AT IMO. They continue to do what they were doing. I had a sniper right in front of a conscript squad and instead of focus firing it I think they focused on the volks also in front of them. At least I think.