How about a 45mm at gun?

[Pajeu]

Maybe, can we put this marvellous gun in the mustering tent as a first light AT gun support for the troops...

The 45 mm anti-tank gun model 1937 (factory designation 53-K) was a light quick-firing anti-tank gun used in the first stage of the German-Soviet War. It was created by Soviet artillery designer M.N. Loginov. Due to insufficient armor penetration it was replaced in service by the long-barreled 45 mm anti-tank gun M1942 (M-42).
The gun bearing factory designation 53-K (Cyrillic 53-К) was a combination of a modified carriage of the 37 mm anti-tank gun model 1931 (built according to a documentation bought from Rheinmetall) with a 45 mm barrel. The resulting light semi-automatic anti-tank gun was adopted for Red Army service in 1937, and thus known as "45 mm anti-tank gun M1937" (Russian: 45-мм противотанковая пушка образца 1937 года). These guns were used in the first stage of the German-Soviet War, but their anti-armor capabilities allowed them to fight successfully only with German light tanks and armored personnel carriers. Early models of the Panzer III and Panzer IV could also be knocked out at close range, but this put Soviet artillerymen in greater danger. Due to these circumstances, model 1937 guns were replaced with the all-new design, the more powerful model 1942. The mass production of outdated model 1937 guns was stopped in 1943. The total number of guns produced was 37,354.
Two such guns were employed as an anti-tank platoons, organic to each rifle battalion. Additionally a dozen (12 guns) was in anti-tank battalions at a level of a rifle division. It was also used by separate anti-tank regiments (4-5 batteries of 4 guns each).
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1937_(53-K)

[neosdark]

That History lesson sounds absolutely wonderful, but why do the Soviets require such a unit? They have Tank Hunters and a ZiS-3 for early-mid game anti-tank/anti vehicle

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

Yeah, we already got problems finding a proper space for the Pak36 in the Ostheer as it is just so useless. I doubt we'll make it.

[Pajeu]

The ifantry tank hunters is not so effective than a at gun, which would be available as soon as possible - from the mustering tent, for exemple.
Of course it has usefulness against a Panzer 35 (t), a panzer II or agains the italian units that seems will appear in the ostheer patch...
In fact, the number gun manufactured (more than 37 thousand) show its utility in the real war.
Personaly, I'am a infantry close support guns real fan; the battlefield become more dynamic with it. I love the 76 mm regimental gun M1927, but unfortunately EF put it in the pit, not do it mobile like Westfront mod
By the way, more we have new units, more fun we have too...
À la prochaine,
P.

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

By the way, more we have new units, more fun we have too...

That's actually wrong... We are not Blitzkrieg.

[Pajeu]

That's actually wrong... We are not Blitzkrieg.

  Sorry, I don't understand... I propose just one more gun to help the lonely Zis 2... There are mods -another than Blitzkrieg- that presents three axis guns: pak36, pak38 and pak340, and the omnipresent 88mm too!!!

P.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

The problem is; we need a function and a place for this small gun.
Imagine this 45mm is your main Anti tank gun and u can/have to kill late game tanks with this guns.
So most of the players would start to cry; thats not logical. This gun is too weak to pen a Tiger (e.g.).
But when u make this gun too weak to pen late game tanks everyone will say that this gun is useless
because for the most parts late game is dominated by armoured warfare
It is difficult to implement stuff. We have a lot of weapon we would like to add but we cant find a
role or position... 45mm gun is just one weapon on this list...

[neosdark]

That's actually wrong... We are not Blitzkrieg.

  Sorry, I don't understand... I propose just one more gun to help the lonely Zis 2... There are mods -another than Blitzkrieg- that presents three axis guns: pak36, pak38 and pak340, and the omnipresent 88mm too!!!

P.

Yes, but we are not Blitzkreig Mod, this is the Eastern Front mod. They do not do what Blitzkreig does, EF team puts units in for specific roles, not just because they existed or look cool.

Since they don't add units for any random reason, the 45mm gun has no role in the Soviets unless you make it a reward unit for the Tank Hunters, in which case you may as well get the ZiS-3 early on, shoots slower, but a higher range and more damage will completely outclass it, no use for the 45mm in the end.

[Blackbishop]

@Pajeu
At the time your opponent can call-in all those vehicles you mention you will already have enough AT power to kill them. So no need for a new gun, specially on T1.

Also, regardless how many mods use three axis at guns for a single axis faction, EF doesn't need such feature for soviets. You only need one type of AT gun, if you don't have doctrinal AT support, then add an infantry AT squad(or an upgrade to it), but by any means not a new AT gun. This new soviet atg is not suitable to guard the flanks of the ZiS2, just like you wouldn't use a PaK36 to keep the flanks safe for a PaK38 or a PaK40, which is why you need a different type of unit to support them.

[MonolithicBacon]

Not to put myself on the sharp side of an argument here, but has anyone considered this AT gun not as a normal AT weapon, but instead as a detrimental or griefing weapon, like the Light AT halftrack? I know that Strelky have recently adopted this role themselves, but their slowing effect with the AT shot is not permanent.

[Blackbishop]

The thing is, this weapon is not as mobile as the ATHT so it won't be half useful. There is no need to make a new AT gun, because Tank Hunters are there to support ZiS-2. If Tank Hunters are too weak for the role, the solution shouldn't be to make a new unit to make it work better, but to increase the effectiveness of the THs.

[Pajeu]

Hi, Bishop!
Hi, guys!
Well... EF is not Blitzkrieg: I'm able to realize it!
Maybe, you are not thinking about the single players - which fights against the AI, like me, for exemple; we never finish to fight the monster armors like Tiger or Panther...
The germans were stoped in the Moscow with weapons like that - 45mm at guns, T26, BT7, T28 and eve some T35...
Anyway, it seems that the Ostheer is more prolific in news and differents units - there are ever italian and hugarian units; either so obsolete than a light tank L6 or a semovente 47/32 - against which the 45mm doesn't make bad. Then, I can ask me: why the soviets doesn't have a BA 10, a BT 7 or a 45mm at gun, or why the 76 mm regimental gun M1927 is not a mobile one? And if you like tell about doctrine... it doesn't make sens that a short barrel gun (that was used almost in direct fire against the enemie) be placed in a nest!
The quantity is not the unique business, but it make the battlefield more spice... And don't tell me that EF is not Blitzkrieg: I'm able to see it, how I already told!
Finally, above all EF did appear like a russian point of vue CoH mod, not like more a german or axis mod... but with the Ostheer patch, I believe that the russians will not be enough represented in theyr own mod.

[Blackbishop]

Soviets are not going to be correctly represented just by adding one more weapon or a new tank to it, if a unit is going to be added it needs to be justified. Soviets already have their unit selection and anything else we add might be redundant. However, there is place to sort out some things when we finish Ostheer assets, and you know anything about Soviets vs Ostheer balance yet, so it is too early to make assumptions.

It is obvious than Ostheer has more news than Soviets because as we have stated many times before, we follow a certain order, Soviets had their time and people is waiting Ostheer, so you won't see any update about soviet models until we finish the assets for Ostheer, just as the news about the campaigns are scarce because it is not their time yet.

• Release Soviets
  
• Release Ostheer
• Rework Soviet models
• Campaigns

I'm not sure why would you expect a different order if we have always followed this plan ;).

Besides what it might appear, all the active staff has a lot of work at their end, so the progress comes very slow. So no way to have both, Ostheer news and Soviet news in the same period of time.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

[...]
The germans were stoped in the Moscow with weapons like that - 45mm at guns, T26, BT7, T28 and eve some T35...
[...]

This argument/logic is working the other way round too.
German 3,7cm Pak 36 had destroyed a high number of BT and T-26 tanks so we should implement it
There are enough reasons for or against a weapon. So we have no lack of weapons but a lack of ingame space ^^

[Pajeu]

  Hi, guys...
You're right to forbid your point of vue.
You're right.
That's it.