Afaik soviets pretty much steamrolled most axis players in the last tourney, barton raped everyone by using conscripts only...
Building any kind of support-weapons vs Conscript-spam (3-4 conscripts) is a bad mistake. Volksspam (3-4 Volk plus early medic-bunker) is the key to success. 4 Volks bash 4 Conscripts easily, even if they have Molos. And unlike Conscripts, Volks are not getting that useless in midgame as Conscripts.Like said correctly, MGs and Snipers are not able to deal with Conscript-spam or at least its hard to deal with. But the game is about correct reaction to the enemy building-order, so its best to start allways with 2 Volks as they dominate Conscripts and are very strong in early game. If you see 3rd Conscript by the enemy you should build more Volks. If you see 3-4 Conscript you should expect Molotovs and for that you should get Medic-bunker to piss enemy off.Didnt played EF for a very long time, but I agree that Molotovs might be slightly too strong.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the Balancers do for 2.00 with the Soviets but I'd like to mention a couple of things that I noticed in 1.702 that I hope do not go unmentioned.
Conscripts:QuoteAfaik soviets pretty much steamrolled most axis players in the last tourney, barton raped everyone by using conscripts only...This is self explanatory, its blatantly obvious how OP conscripts are. You don't even need to build Strelky or Guards. Molotovs are the worst part about them; they do a large amount of damage, extremely cheap to buy (the upgrade and the actual use of the ability), come really early and have a fast enough recharge. Given that conscripts have such a short build time you usually end up with a showdown of 4 conscripts vs 2 volks and an MG early on and one conscript always gets through to throw the molotov forcing the MG to relocate or die. The short build time also denies any MG/bike play. Snipers aren't that effective against them (low reinforce cost/ large squad size). For some reason they seem harder to suppress than in other patches.The fact that conscripts hold up so well.generally results in some far reaching consequences, the don't cost alot to buy outright so getting an outpost isn't too much of a strain on MP so early T-34s are easy to get. You tend to have excess manpower for KVs too, the whole thing becomes a nightmare for Wehr. I assume the current balance team has already addressed this problem. I'd move Molotovs to the armory and increase the build time of the Mustering tent by about 5 seconds.
b]KV-1s:[/b]T2 play get completely dominated by KV1s. This is evidence enough:http://www.easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=9381.0KV1s are extremely resilient to paks and Schrecks. They're effectively medium tanks that don't require teching. They offer no unique gameplay. If I had the choice I'd just remove them. If you want, you could put them back in as a reward for T-34s. Why they were removed from this position is beyond me. You already have the KV85, all that would be required would be to make them "Tank Riders" compatible.
I'd also remove SU-85s from this position in the Breakthrough Doctrine. It doesn't deserve to be doctrinal, its just another tank destroyer and the doctrine has enough Call ins already. Make it into a reward for the SU76. It used to be there anyway, both tanks have the same role but function differently in the same way the gwagen and the stug differ. I'd also bring it down to 6 pop,
Prop DocSupport gun = Useless = remove. Swap the "Red tide" to the second spot on the right so all the call ins aren't on the one side and put something new on the left.
SU122Not even half as good as the KV2.
T2: Everything that needs to be said about observers has already been said. TH are gone which I'm happy about because it gives you the perfect opportunity to remove other useless upgrades and units. I wouldn't add another unit to T2, I'd leave it the way it is. I'd separate the Mortar and AT and give each unit its individual teching cost: Snipers (80mp and 20 fuel), AT guns (100mp and 25 fuel) and Mortars (200mp and 45 fuel). Why so high for mortars? Well I think they should start upgraded because medium mortars are useless anyway. Likewise for AT guns. This would mean that the upgrades of gunnery veterans (Ie the upgrade no one buys) and ballistic veterans are removed along with the medium mortar. AT guns would be much more readily avaliable which would deal with Soviet's deficiency vs HTs and Stuhs. What about the strelky unlock you say, I'd have it that strelky unlock when the SSB is built. Stelky shouldn't require fuel as they are only just as strong as riflemen and wehr do fine against rifles already. The manpower attached to the upgrade just delayed them even further. RBS would have the same impact as BARs as a result. The IS2 tech wouldn't be too greatly affected because the cost would be roughly the same. 6 upgrades would be left in the armory.
PartisansThey need something else, like for example a thread breaker mine that would otherwise be removed from the game.Sturminovie Very expensive for what they are. Repair nerf once upgraded? 75 muni PLUS 150mp per squad. Unable to build base structures or mines? High reinforce cost? upkeep cost? negative zeal? Why would you get this instead of a flame thrower? Please reconsider.
IS2Nearly impossible to repair without BT doctrine.Anyway that's all I've got, thanks for tanking your time to consider my proposals. Take them or leave them, up to you.
I'm surprised how people claim how effective conscripts are. If I could choose between 4 conscripts or 2 Strelky, I would pick 2 Strelky which is both as good in combat and also cheaper plus you can get nasty SMGs which outperform conscripts. They also do much better in lategame. Conscripts won't really do much late game at all and usually in many replays I have seen in the "RIP EF Propagandacast", conscripts tend to die more easily and you end up with most likely none lategame, while Strelky can retain its usefulness. Not to mention 3 conscripts that were fully upgraded charged a FG42 Falscrimjagers squad in green cover and all 21 rifle cons lost/force-retreated to 4 FG42 Falscrimjagers.
Quoteb]KV-1s:[/b]T2 play get completely dominated by KV1s. This is evidence enough:http://www.easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=9381.0KV1s are extremely resilient to paks and Schrecks. They're effectively medium tanks that don't require teching. They offer no unique gameplay. If I had the choice I'd just remove them. If you want, you could put them back in as a reward for T-34s. Why they were removed from this position is beyond me. You already have the KV85, all that would be required would be to make them "Tank Riders" compatible. KV 1 had not hardcap, whcih was likely to be an oversight. In the next version they're hard capped to 2 tanks at all times, and their pop cap is increased slightly.
QuoteT2: Everything that needs to be said about observers has already been said. TH are gone which I'm happy about because it gives you the perfect opportunity to remove other useless upgrades and units. I wouldn't add another unit to T2, I'd leave it the way it is. I'd separate the Mortar and AT and give each unit its individual teching cost: Snipers (80mp and 20 fuel), AT guns (100mp and 25 fuel) and Mortars (200mp and 45 fuel). Why so high for mortars? Well I think they should start upgraded because medium mortars are useless anyway. Likewise for AT guns. This would mean that the upgrades of gunnery veterans (Ie the upgrade no one buys) and ballistic veterans are removed along with the medium mortar. AT guns would be much more readily avaliable which would deal with Soviet's deficiency vs HTs and Stuhs. What about the strelky unlock you say, I'd have it that strelky unlock when the SSB is built. Stelky shouldn't require fuel as they are only just as strong as riflemen and wehr do fine against rifles already. The manpower attached to the upgrade just delayed them even further. RBS would have the same impact as BARs as a result. The IS2 tech wouldn't be too greatly affected because the cost would be roughly the same. 6 upgrades would be left in the armory. Interesting... Do you have our internal version? Some of this stuff is pretty similar to the changes we're currently testing QuotePartisansThey need something else, like for example a thread breaker mine that would otherwise be removed from the game.Sturminovie Very expensive for what they are. Repair nerf once upgraded? 75 muni PLUS 150mp per squad. Unable to build base structures or mines? High reinforce cost? upkeep cost? negative zeal? Why would you get this instead of a flame thrower? Please reconsider.Still they rape everything at close range, and do not die at all. A double flamer ingenery is still easy to supress and will die against focus fire quickly.
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Topic: 1.702 Soviet Balance (Read 7309 times)
