Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: A subtly stupid question  (Read 8555 times)

Offline tpcoughlin

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A subtly stupid question
« on: April 02, 2011, 08:34:20 AM »
We all know what a Conscript is good for, right?  ;D

Conscript: Inf1, 8M sqd 4R, low morale, deployment cost 224 mp

1.Ostheer concept: neutral units1, This is a unit that is deployed from a Tx building, T12 in this case  the conscript's role is Inf1 Infantry. the subscript 1 is important because it indicates how many upgrades are required before a unit may be deployed. Any unit with a subscript value <=1 is a neutral unit it may be deploy from its base building with no additional cost. The next vanilla unit                           
         
Tactical Considerations


Abilities: capping, subversive2. (read as hidden abilities)
Upgrades: Inf2, 0 pop,(IJoe informs me there is a 5 unit pop cap; which means 5 bonus conscript units can be added to your OB a 1120mp bonus, an example of conscript ability: subversive. -thanks IJoe.
role:Inf1, blocker
costs:1st cost: 324mp;  deployment: 224mp  , reinforce: 16mp
Deployment: T1 default neutral unit1
Combat effectiveness: Tactical: low;
(R<P<S<R): Conscript< All complex counter

1.Combat Effectiveness: low 4R 8M sqd: considered as a 4R sqd its CE/R increases as unit takes losses! IE a low CE 2HP 4R sqd.
2.Deploy as csInf at M/L range with CS ability: remove suppression units


Strategic Considerations (EF1.3.02)


1. Unique to Soviet Faction: Strategic Reserve (5  lo grade 2HP 4R inf squads) Given infinite MP, the T1 can continuously produce L1 thru L3 Inf from the time it is completed until the facility is destroyed; ignoring the population cap. Only the Soviet Faction can do this. Hidden conscript ability!Given the low combat effectiveness of the Conscript you could call this the Zombie Army Tactic.
2. How can we use the Zombie Army  to enhance our Strategic planning and implementation? Query:can conscripts still be recruited after penal troop upgrade is complete?
3.The Soviet Static bunker unit/outpost (garrison cap=1 pop cap-10,ability: reinforce) and the conscript compliment other each
as forlorn hope tactic with excellent flexibility in easy implementation. In rock< paper<scissors we usually think in one-on-one or small group actions. In this case we have the rare example of a complex counter. Just like a small child who always throws out rock, we won't win too many rounds but every round we win generates a bonus in the Capping and Resource Acquisition Duel. (zero sum) I think we have just discovered the Conscript's hidden counter.

 
wave attack< conscript, Army advance<conscript

4.You may not agree with a lot of this. I don't. I usually only deploy 2-3 Conscripts to Garrison strategic outposts in quiet sectors. Doesn't matter. I do know the answer to my own dumb question.
A Conscript is good for inspiring Strategic Thought. NUFF SAID.

footnotes


1. The use of the term neutral to describe the first vanilla unit (L1) to come from a production building in the unit development series. A Strelky is an L2Inf, a Guard, L3Inf. The Inf label describes not only the role of the unit but implies the deployment source as well. IE Inf comes from the T1=InfHQ. My first reaction was to use the term default for this type of unit and apply a subscript0 to designation. To my mind this is clearer to the average gamer. CoH is at heart a rock, paper, scissors game neutral and 0 imply a zero sum game.
2. Other Sov units with ability:subversive: Outpost, Zis ambulance,

Sun Tzu writes a lot about hidden and secret things in The Art of War. Its worth a read.

Enigma
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 05:17:19 AM by tpcoughlin »
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Offline RedGuard

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 09:03:15 AM »
Hi comrade

it look good on paper but in reality soviet army does not synergize well with capping OPs and building Mg nests you are better to stay aggressive keep on the move capping all points

also use conscript to cap and to stall until you can build strelky, preferrably with red banner upgrade. as they are strongest infantry in game with command squad and ppsh

conscipt is not effective main line infantry if u try to use them as such u will find fastly that it is huge drain on ur economy/MP and hinders ur growth and tech.

dont bother with penal troops they have no retreat and it is a liability losing whole squad ever, strelky comrade they are our hammer
Soviet is OP

Offline tpcoughlin

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 10:07:26 AM »
Tovarich
I use ingeneri as line infantry in pairs  maneuver and fire, I leap frog  my cappers until contact at which point all drop what they are doing and march to the sound of the guns. As supporting infantry comes
up they seek good cover, all squads concentrate their fire  on one target. as more and more infantry converge I cycle out battered units to build a nearby OPs on either flank. Command Squad and Sharpshooter form the combat assault team. maneuver and fire. Kill the enemy which ever is easiest. Obtain veterancy and upgrade to get artillery support. Decimated Eng retreat to OP  to reinforce and create kill zones. I build my Tech buildings this way: as each eng deploys he starts one or two buildings and moves on. Sooner or later an eng  is decimated he retreats to HQ and finished the buildings. I tech T2/mrCS/T4/T1.

That Tovarich is the American Way.
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Offline irik

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 09:12:26 PM »
tpcoughlin, why do you use ingenery for capping and main infantry? Conscripts and Strelky are better for that purpose. In my opinion, Ingenery are only good for constructing structures, and flaming structures (if they have ROKS-2 flamethrower)
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Offline Cranialwizard

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 11:32:48 PM »
Conscripts have an on-par or potentially better capping rate than riflemen. I don't see why you would use Ingenery for capping due to their low cap rate. Conscripts are good for that stage where you need a bit of fuel to unlock an upgrade in the support center to get Strelky (And of course the 2 support units)
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Offline RedGuard

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 11:43:23 PM »
I think actually my ingenery do the majority of my capping as well, because my conscripts and command squad are always somewehre fighting or scouting. generally speaking




Soviet is OP

Offline Cranialwizard

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2011, 02:48:14 AM »
What, conscripts can't fight and cap when the enemy retreats when they see a blob?  ::)
"Balancers are 10 a penny"

Offline RedGuard

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2011, 04:19:43 AM »
Yes my conscript do that of course and the strelky etc. but what im saying is that I think my ingenery do most cap throughout whole game overall. I dont know this true but that what it seem like to me comrade

think how many time have your men been attacked while capping  and do not finish

think how many time u simply de-cap and move

all the time my ingenery have finished cap of many point
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 04:25:12 AM by REDcomissar »
Soviet is OP

Offline tpcoughlin

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2011, 12:15:46 AM »
think how many time have your men been attacked while capping  and do not finish

think how many time u simply de-cap and move

all the time my ingenery have finished cap of many point

1. I think in terms of Battle Groups, not individual squads. When one of my squads is capping, and is attacked; the other squads stop, what they are doing: (recce, capping, building sometimes even when attacking); and "march to the sound of the guns"; ie move to support the squad which is attacked. -this is the "French Way". There are three situations where I don't march to the guns: if I am close, (in time), to capping or decapping a point I will finish. Also if i am building an outpost I will finish it.

Quote
When you hear the cannon roar, march to the sound of the guns...Napoleon

2. My cappers are interdicted while capping all the time. So often in fact that I've adopted the use of delaying tactics. (that's why I finish Outposts), to delay the enemy advance. I also frequently de-cap enemy points and move on. The combination of these two tactics  becomes the strategy known as Scorched Earth. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the also the "Russian Way" ;) Sun Tzu  says: much about the ways of war in the Classic The Art =Tao =way Of War. It was written @ 500 BCE. It is still required reading for students at West Point, the USA military Academy.

I still am not sure of the role of conscripts in EF. But the good news is (I think) when EF_Ostheer comes out 2 free conscript squads will be available at HQT0  at the start of the game. At 224mp/Conscript I still think conscripts are too expensive. The prospect of two battle_groups (2-Ingenery, 1-Conscript), early in the game presents interesting possibilities.
battle group(En) = Kampf Gruppe(Ger)
Tovarich: Tell me what you think about Penal Squads.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 12:30:34 AM by tpcoughlin »
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Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2011, 06:35:17 AM »
Conscripts function exactly as volks, defeated one on one by other squads but useful in small groups or with other weapons (command squad). They are phased out by superior troops later on. Conscripts aren't nearly as bad as people seem to think, especially with the AI fixed. Conscripts are also excellent troops in buildings.

The conscript battlegroups are a horrible idea.

Soviets are actually slightly more powerful than Wehr in the beginning with CS and 3 conscript squads fighting against ~3 enemy WQ units. The fourth WQ unit turns the fight in the Wehr's favour and the first support unit from the Soviets turns it again.

Penal troops are currently being considered by the devs so may change soon. They are good troops to flank or charge MG positions. Penal squad > MG. The upgrade lets all conscripts counter buildings which is lacking in the Soviet early game as well. This is an important factor. Against a good player, one should always tech either sniper team/mortar, strafynie or sturmovie ingenery for early anti-building.
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Offline RedGuard

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 06:40:17 AM »
penal squads what do u mean they're "being considered"?

I never build penal squads no retreat button is just a disaster, and it makes them take ages to reinforce

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 07:14:56 AM »
I also find penal squads not worth it.  IMO the ingenerie bodyarmor or the red banner upgrade is much better.  I think upgraded ingies need a increase in reinforce cost and penal squads should get a buff like cheaper reinforcements to reward players who micro them well and actually get them back to HQ alive.

Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 07:17:38 AM »
They are currently under review. I can't say any more than that.

Penal squads would certainly be worth it if the unsuppressability worked properly at the moment. Not being able to be suppressed for 50MU 15FU is very good.
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Offline Enrique 'Blackbishop' E.

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 08:02:20 AM »
They are currently under review. I can't say any more than that.

Penal squads would certainly be worth it if the unsuppressability worked properly at the moment. Not being able to be suppressed for 50MU 15FU is very good.
Well, it works in the internal beta ;D!!
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Offline tpcoughlin

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Re: A subtly stupid question
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2011, 07:01:37 AM »
They are currently under review. I can't say any more than that.

Penal squads would certainly be worth it if the unsuppressability worked properly at the moment. Not being able to be suppressed for 50MU 15FU is very good.
Well, it works in the internal beta ;D !!

I hope the non-suppression ability works well too. Makes the penal sqds more usefull as support troops.
Don't forget the upgrade also gives your existing consripts that lovey incendiary cocktail; makes them more useful in urban combat, And they can hit and run! 
孫 The
                                               EFv1.3.1
子 Art
                                               ENIGMA
兵 of
                   Sun Tzu says: War is the way to survival or extinction.
法 War