New German Units

[Apex]

Atylaska, you are exxaggerating a lot. During times of war, war crimes are commited. So did the Wehrmacht. Put not to the extend you put it.

Creaver your detailed list is very nice, thanks a lot. We will definitely look at it.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Great to hear that 

[palm]

And the Russians didn't rape a lot of women entering Germany? Of course they did. Both sides committed some awful acts. Don't come with the "They did it first", please. I really think the SS should be in the game. All in the SS weren't stone cold NS. Divisions like SS-leibstandarte Adolf Hitler were hardcore NS though.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

They were ALL NS -.- Cause the Sturmstaffel was Hitlers Ideological Eliteforce. In the Beginning 95% of its soldiers were Blond and had Blue eyes, over 1,80metres tall (They were called 'Arier', Ubermensch). They were indoctrinated to show no fear and to show no mercy against Russians, Polands and Jews.

[palm]

Well I don't agree with you. It's Schutzstaffel btw. And if were propagating for Stalin why can't SS be included? Stalin killed more people than Hitler in Gulag. (Bad argument, I know.)
Lets keep this mod/site apolitical and do it correct and historically accurate. Furthermore what says an NS SS soldier is evil? They sure weren't the people signing the contract of the "Final solution". They weren't indoctrinated with killing civilians even though some stupid officers encouraged it. The fact is that many of the civilians shot had some role in society and were dangerous. But many (if not most) had nothing to do with it also. I agree with you it's always horrible when civilians get trapped in a raging war. But to say all SS soldiers were evil is just so wrong.

[palm]

Look at those pictures.
http://libreopinion.com/members/leondegrelle/storyofthewaffenss.html
"Then, in 1941 during the great clash with the Soviet Union, rose the European Waffen SS. Young men from the most distant countries fought together on the Russian front."

[Soviet_Marine]

Some info
Of course Red army soldiers had raped german women. But, there are not so many raped women, as some historians are talking about, because the was an order signed by Marshal Zhukov, that if soldier would be "cached" during raping, he will be shoot like a traitor or deserter. And in the beginning, there are some soldiers, killed by NKVD or army officers.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Disclaimer: I DO NOT want to insult anybody in this topic, I just want to state that the whole picture has to be seen and not just some parts. A pro-contra argumentation WILL fail, cause this subject is SO complicated.

"Furthermore what says an NS SS soldier is evil? They sure weren't the people signing the contract of the "Final solution". They weren't indoctrinated with killing civilians even though some stupid officers encouraged it."

I recommend reading Guido Knopps (German WW2-Historian) book "The Wehrmacht - A Review" (in German: "Die Wehrmacht - Eine Bilanz") (I don't know if it's available in english speech tbh). It deals detailed and differiantiated with the Wehrmacht aswell as with the Waffen SS and its role in the 2nd World War. Very interesting to read.

Look at those pictures.
http://libreopinion.com/members/leondegrelle/storyofthewaffenss.html
"Then, in 1941 during the great clash with the Soviet Union, rose the European Waffen SS. Young men from the most distant countries fought together on the Russian front."

Guido Knopp also produced MASSES of documentations about the 3rd Reich, about the maincharacters (Hitler, Göring, Goebbels, Himmler, Eichmann etc.), about the German Society and of course about the Armies.

He made a trilogy "Die Waffen-SS - Hitlers Glaubenskrieger" (The Waffen-SS - Hitlers Warriors), in which he described the rise and fall of the German SS-Divisions, starting as a distinct group of "Ariers" to a multicultural company, which were recruited due to a lack of new Ariers which could've been recruted. So it was a necessity. If enough blond poeple had been available they'd kicked them ALL out. The Nazis were EXTREMELY disrespectful agianst ppl which didn't fit in their "Übermensch"-racesystem.

However, during the French-war MANY SS-soldiers commited (or at least had to commit) crimes against civilians, en masse, especially executions. The amount of people killed lay in responsibly of officers, but the people were killed. Even more at the Russian Front.

But W/E, I recommend watching documentations about the 3rd Reich (I'm doing that since I'm 12 [Now I'm 20] ), reading detailed books and argumentations, then come back and say the SS is nice to be played. (Mom, I'll count the amount of documentations about N/S ideology currently on my PC: 34, books I've read : ~ 7, articles I read: at least roughly 100. I think I know a lot about this topic.
Btw: I'm German

[palm]

I believe many volunteered in the SS to fight communism like the Scandinavian Viking division. For the volunteers I think that was what it was mostly about that. Not the ideology of the Third Reich. It is indeed very complicated but to say all in the SS were NS is wrong. As I said many neutral people joined to fight communism.

[Dominic 'Dragon' Cassidy]

No offence to anyone, and this isn't directed at anyone particular, but i hate when people want to change mods or games simply due to personal feelings. If the SS are the historical side that fought a lot on the Eastern Front, they'll be added (eventually), people will play them no matter who they are or there name, simply because they are a cool new side. I don't in any way agree with any kinds of terrible acts committed by anyone in any wars, but that won't stop a mod from including what should be in it.

Please, personally (not as an admin or dev) i would prefer people didn't bitch about these sort of things, especially since you aren't the people that committed said acts, which means you have no clue what was going through these peoples heads when they did these things, or the thoughts of those that ordered them, and in my opinion that means you don't really have the authority to say these mostly normal people were disgusting monsters. I believe that the only person that can really explain anything that is done, is the person that did it, they are the only one that can know why, whether the person is a soldier, a politician or an every day human being, they are the only ones that know what they are thinking.

[UeArtemis]

I think that the SS already is in the game. The PE is disguised SS for me.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

I think that the SS already is in the game. The PE is disguised SS for me.

Actually, it's probably based on Ligt armoured Scouting Battalions, you can see that due to the Scout Cars which were only delivered to armoured Scouts...

[Lone Commissar]

Ugh, why do people have to bring up war crimes? 20 million Russians were killed by the Germans whether they be SS (and can we please say that there was more to the SS than the SS the Waffen-SS did the actual fighting the others WERE there to kill the "untermensch" and other delightful things) or other German forces. However, if you were that indoctrinated and told to do stuff like that why not? Also, the Russians did rape some women as they moved into Germany ,however, this is often grossly over exaggerated by Western historians to try and make it out as though the Russians were some kind of monsters though it did happen I admit. Now can we please leave this out of here. This topic is for talking about new German units. We shouldn't need to get a moderator for this thread (does anyone know if we actually have one for this forum?). Some SS units could be a nice addition I think, as a kind of elite core for the Ost Germans.

Dragon93 - Of course Western Historians did that, hence the Cold War and anti-communist beliefs.

[Lone Commissar]

Oh thanks Dragon at least I know I can trust you! 

[palm]

Oh yes, I suppose Gulag too is a lie?